Yesterday I was very concerned with the rumors that were swirling around the NBA. There were several sources that confirmed the Raptors made a $60 million offer to Hedo Turkoglu, the Turkish small forward who was in Orlando last season. There are a number of reasons that Hedo would not work out in Toronto, which I mentioned in yesterday’s article, but the biggest reason for concern was the bevvy of young talented players at the position that were still available, and for less money at that!
Breathe a sigh of relief Raps fans, the Turkoglu offer is gone. This morning Raptors beat reporter Doug Smith of the Toronto Star wrote:
“Meanwhile, the Raptors seem to have pulled back on a decision to take a run at Orlando’s Hedo Turkoglu, who now seems a good bet to land in Portland.
Still, two NBA sources said yesterday they thought Turkoglu was more interested in landing in Toronto than the Pacific Northwest. A report yesterday afternoon that Toronto was planning some exorbitant $60 million offer, however, was debunked by a handful of sources. It would take Toronto renouncing the rights to Shawn Marion, Anthony Parker, Carlos Delfino and others to get a Turkoglu deal done and one league source said a deal with Delfino was “close.”
But the Blazers are hot after the 6-foot-10 Turkoglu, dispatching coach Nate McMillan to meet with Turkoglu yesterday and planning to fly the player and his agent to Portland today.”
So there you have it Raptors fans, Hedo Turkoglu, the most overrated free agent on the market, will not be in Toronto next season. The best bet for the Raptors is to sign Shawn Marion back or sign Trevor Ariza, who ESPN reported this morning is likely out of LA. Both are a much better fit for our team than Hedo Turkoglu. Sources are saying that Shawn Marion is getting a lot less attention on the open market than expected. That is great news for Bryan Colangelo, who was rumored to be willing to offer Marion in the $6-7 million range. If interest in Marion continues to be sparse, Colangelo could get Marion for the lower end, $6 million, and for only 3 years, which would be the perfect value for Marion. Also this morning Yahoo! Sports Twitter feed reported, I’m still skeptical about reporting news from twitter, that the loser of the Turkoglu battle will likely try to sign Ariza:
“League executives believe the loser in the Hedo pursuit — Portland or Toronto — will offer Ariza between $32 million and $40 million deal”
Doug also mentions in his article that the Raptors have shifted their focus to signing New York Knicks free agent David Lee:
“League sources say Toronto is trying to obtain David Lee, an energetic rebounder who is a New York Knicks restricted free agent… Lee, 26, had a breakout year with the Knicks last season, averaging 16 points and 11.7 rebounds a game. He had a salary of just about $1.8 million (all figures U.S.) and is seen as one of the top young free agents out there; he’s a restricted free agent so if Toronto were to simply make an offer and not try to engineer some sign-and-trade transactions, the Knicks could match it.”
You know my stance on David Lee, but if not check out my article about him from yesterday.
That’s it for now. Keep checking in with all your favorite Raptors blogs for more Raptors Free Agent updates. We will make sure to let you know as soon as we find out who the Raptors finally sign.
-KC Roberts
FanSided
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Please explain your repeated assertation that Turkoglu would be a “worse fit” in Toronto than Ariza or Marion.
The Raptors are lack talent in general, particularly at the 3. Turkoglu is easily the most talented of the three available options. How is that a poor fit?
The Raptors lack backcourt scoring. Turkoglu, again, is easily the best of the three available options at getting buckets. How is that a bad fit?
The Raptors lack a guard that can create his own shots. Turkoglu, again, is easily the best of the three available options. How is that a poor fit?
The Raptors lack a player to take and make a big shot in the late stages of the game. Turkoglu, again, is easily the best of the three available options. How is that a bad fit?
The Raptors lack a competent back up point guard. Turkoglu was often trusted with ball handling duties in Orlando, playing a sort of point forward position when Nelson was out. The other two do not handle the ball. How is that a bad fit?
The Raptors lack a player that can facilitate offense outside of Calderon. Turkoglu averaged 5 assists per game last season. The other two combined for 5. How is that a bad fit?
Marion has a slight rebounding edge over Turk (8 vs. 5) and Ariza has a slight defensive edge. They are both significantly less capable on the offensive end. I simply don’t see how the slight advantages in those two areas makes them better fits for this team than Turkoglu.
If you want to argue with the dollar figure, that’s fine (although $40 mil for a guy who has never scored more than 9 PPG for a season is far more ridiculous in my opinion) but tossing out the notion that those two would not only be better value, but better additions for the team, without providing any rationale for the statement is outrageous.
He is a bad fit because he can’t rebound as well which we NEED with Bargnani on the floor.
Because he would be getting 60 mill over 5 which would kill the Raps future especially when he sucks in 2-3 years.
Because he played on a team where opposing defenses had to focus on Howard and Lewis. In toronto he would be the 2nd option.
Because Bargnani plays a very similar game, big guy who sits on the three, and I would rather have a complimentary piece rather than one who is a lot like someone we already have.
But mostly because I hate him! Which makes him a worse fit for the team for me, which is really the most important thing for ME and not really our readers. But I have always admitted that I am very bias when I write.
Also we would be the whitest team in basketball which would be hilarious, but shitty.
I DO like his game ending heroics because I am tired of watching Bosh throw up terrible shots with the game on the line. But that is really it.
He rebounds better than Ariza, so I don’t know what exactly you mean there. I acknowledged Marion’s rebounding advantage, but his limitations on offense greatly outweigh that in my opinion.
Salary has nothing to do with fit. Rashard Lewis is overpaid, and he’s still a good fit. And assuming he’s going to suck in 2-3 years is just dumb. Athleticism is a very small part of his game, and therefore age will limit him much less others who rely on athleticism, such as…hmmmm…I dunno…Shawn Marion.
How does this make him a bad fit? He’s a bad fit because we would expect more out of him than we would out of Marion or Ariza? He’s a bad fit because he would be a number 2 option, but Marion and Ariza would be good fits because they would be the 3rd, 4th, or 5th option? How does that make any sense? And I’m not sure if you watched the Playoffs, but if you did, you would have seen Turkoglu being defended by Lebron and then by Kobe or Ariza in the 4th quarters. So to say opposing defenses “focused on Howard and Lewis” while they sent their best defenders at Turk in crunch time is simply incorrect. He was the first option in Orlando in the 4th quarter. Oh, and just to draw a comparison, Bosh demands more defensive attention than Howard due to his skill and versatility, and Bargs draws slightly less than Lewis, but it is of the same variety (big man operating primarily on the outside) Either way…ridiculous point. Why would we rather bring in a 3rd or 4th option than a 2nd option when we DESPERATELY need a second option? The fact that he would be the 2nd option makes him a GOOD fit.
Bargnani plays a somewhat similar game, at a different position, much less succcessfully. I don’t see how this is an issue. We’d be too good at shooting? Our lineup would be too versatile?
And if all you like about him is his late game heroics, then why have you not addressed any of the positives that I suggested he brings to our lineup above? You don’t like scoring ability, shot creating, ball handling, and facilitating?
And having bias in your writing is fine, but you shouldn’t pass it off as fact. You can’t just say Marion and Ariza would be better fits because you don’t like Turkoglu. You can say you would prefer we sign them because you don’t like Turkoglu, but to say what you said is misleading and makes it appear as though your statement was to be taken seriously in a basketball sense. You can’t just make a blanket statement saying “I am biased when I write” and then use that as an excuse to write dumb shit. If you’re being biased (just like if you’re being sarcastic) make it obvious. Don’t make us guess when you’re actually making legitimate statements and when you’re mixing up a batch of haterade. Would it be in any way legitimate for me to write that Kerry Collins is a better fit at QB for Tennessee than Peyton Manning without presenting any indication of personal bias? Shit, statements like that (and like your Turkoglu one) shouldn’t be made even if you DO make it clear that you’re biased, because then everyone reading it will realize that your bias makes you unable to analyze anything related to that specific player or team. For example, after reading this, I have no interest in ever hearing your opinion on anything related to Hedo Turkoglu again, because it’s clear that your bias makes you unable to properly assess his value given your outrageous statement.
Bias is cool, but make sure it’s presented as such. Say you don’t want Turk on the Raptors all you want, but don’t toss out a statement that is clearly intended to be taken seriously in a basketball sense, such as “Marion and Ariza are better fits with the Raptors”, when it is totally untrue and primarily based off of your dislike for Turkoglu.
If we sign Lee, me-thinks Bosh will be the next piece moved (I personally would move Bargnani and play Bosh at 5m but…) There are too many forwards in the rotation. I like going after Lee though, gives us some insurance just in case…
Turk is too expensive at $10-12 million, unless we do a sign n trade with Marion. I would prefer Ariza at $7-8 million in this SnT scenario.Without the sign n trade we have less to spend on bench players. This team has no chance without good bench players, no matter how good the 5 starters might appear. One of the starters will be down for a significant amount of time at some point next season. Simple laws of probability.
Damn it. I didn’t really take the time to read all the comments, but instead I went ahead typing a response on how I don’t think Hedo fits. But then I read tmwilliamson’s response and he pretty much answered my points. Thanks for wasting my time
.
But…I still don’t like Hedo’s age. I really do think that Bosh will leave at the end his contract because I doubt Hedo would be enough to convice him to stay. So, having a 30+ year old with a huge salary while your trying to rebuild probably won’t help.
To be honest, I’d prefer that we re-sign Marion out of the three. I think Turk would be a very nice addition, but at the numbers that have been rumored, Marion seems to be the best value. I’m wary of signing Ariza to $7 or $8 million a year, primarily because could anyone possibly imagine him getting that much in March? His 7 or 8 million dollar play (if even that) took place in a very short amount of time. I’m not sure he could maintain that level of play over an entire season, especially on a team where he would be asked to play a much, much greater role.
If we’re going after Lee, that signals to me that either Bosh or Bargnani is going to be moved (most likely Bosh, of course) I like Lee, but he doesn’t bring anything near what Bosh does. I don’t see how a Lee/Bosh/Bargs rotation would work, as none of them can play the 3, and there aren’t enough minutes for three guys that talented.
The offseason has taken a very interesting turn for Toronto in the past couple of days. I’m excited to see how this all pans out.
Hedo’s age is certainly a legitimate concern when you consider the term we’d be giving him. I’d rather have Marion for 3 than Hedo for 5.
I still think Hedo will be a decent starter in the NBA at 35 though.
I agree. Marion is preferred. I hate signing someone (Ariza) to big money after one good season. It just brings back bad memories of when the BJ’s signed Eric Hinske (Rookie of the Year) to that big contract. Who knew he would be a bum? The argument with Ariza is after 2 or 3 good seasons, he will cost much more than $7-8 million. I am liking the idea of having Keizla (too lazy too look up correct spelling) of the Nuggets as the backup SF. Wouldnt it be nice if he turned into a Turkolu down the road?
The biggest part of my arguement is that he won’t fit because he will be worth way too much and we won’t be able to add more players in the future. Trevor and Marion allow us flexability in the future which is the biggest reason I think Hedo is a terrible fit for the team. I never said anything thing like “Hedo is a terrible fit for the team on the court” I said all things considered (contract value, on court ability, knowledge of the offense, defensive skill, etc.) Hedo is a worse fit. I agree that Hedo has been great offensively. But Marion has proven last season that he was good in our scheme and Turk hasn’t show that yet which is why I am more prone to us signing Marion. That and he won’t cripple us financially.
You took my statement to only mean he was a bad fit on the court. Saying he is a bad fit for the team implies more than just on the court ability but reflects all aspects of Hedo coming to Toronto, which you didn’t seem to understand. I stand by my statement that Hedo is a worse fit despite my bias against him. I can be objective (and mostly was in this article) the only real bias I showed was in the comments.
Sorry that was to TM not any of the other commentors.
@ Earth Juice: I like Kleiza signing if it happens because he has 3pt range that Marion lack if he comes back.
Well then your problem was ambiguity rather than bias. Saying someone is a “bad fit” implies either on the court or in the locker room. You do not say someone is a “bad fit” in reference to their contract. You say they have a bad contract, or that their salary is a burden on the team. How they fit in with the team has nothing to do with their contract.
As I said, would anyone in the world consider Rashard Lewis a “bad fit” in Orlando? No. Would anyone consider Kenyon Martin a “bad fit” in Denver? No. How about Michael Redd in Milwaukee? Peja in NO? Kirilenko in Utah?
All crippling contracts, all overpaid, all holding back their team from doing what they want to do in free agency. But you will never hear anyone use the term “bad fit” to describe any of them, and if you did, it would refer to their on court or locker room impact, not their financial impact.
Clearly your choice of words was just not the best, but your initial defense of “mostly because I hate him!” did not address the questions I asked about him being a bad fit. Therefore, my assumption was that bias was driving your statement that he would be a bad fit. I don’t think that’s an unfair assumption to make.
If your intent in saying that Marion and Ariza were better fits was actually to acknowledge the salary differences, then I apologize for criticizing your writing, but you have to understand that A) anyone reading the term “better fit for our team” with no indication that you were talking about salary would assume you were talking about actual impact in terms of basketball, and B) defending yourself with “I hate him, I’m biased, I admit to using bias in my writing” doesn’t strengthen your case in the slightest.
And regardless, a $10 million difference over 5 years doesn’t really afford us with that much flexibility (in regards to Ariza) With Marion, I agree, because the shorter term is attractive in my opinion.
And I would LOVE Kleiza coming off the bench.