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	<title>Comments on: It Looks Like My Prayers Have Been Answered: Turkoglu Deal Debunked</title>
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	<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/</link>
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		<title>By: Linkage for Jul 2 10am to Jul 3 10pm - Raptors Republic</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkage for Jul 2 10am to Jul 3 10pm - Raptors Republic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-72</guid>
		<description>[...] It Looks Like My Prayers Have Been Answered: Turkoglu Deal Debunked &#124; Raptors Rapture [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It Looks Like My Prayers Have Been Answered: Turkoglu Deal Debunked | Raptors Rapture [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tmwilliamson</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>tmwilliamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Well then your problem was ambiguity rather than bias.  Saying someone is a &quot;bad fit&quot; implies either on the court or in the locker room.  You do not say someone is a &quot;bad fit&quot; in reference to their contract.  You say they have a bad contract, or that their salary is a burden on the team.  How they fit in with the team has nothing to do with their contract.  

As I said, would anyone in the world consider Rashard Lewis a &quot;bad fit&quot; in Orlando? No.  Would anyone consider Kenyon Martin a &quot;bad fit&quot; in Denver? No.  How about Michael Redd in Milwaukee?  Peja in NO? Kirilenko in Utah?

All crippling contracts, all overpaid, all holding back their team from doing what they want to do in free agency.  But you will never hear anyone use the term &quot;bad fit&quot; to describe any of them, and if you did, it would refer to their on court or locker room impact, not their financial impact.

Clearly your choice of words was just not the best, but your initial defense of &quot;mostly because I hate him!&quot; did not address the questions I asked about him being a bad fit.  Therefore, my assumption was that bias was driving your statement that he would be a bad fit.  I don&#039;t think that&#039;s an unfair assumption to make.

If your intent in saying that Marion and Ariza were better fits was actually to acknowledge the salary differences, then I apologize for criticizing your writing, but you have to understand that A) anyone reading the term &quot;better fit for our team&quot; with no indication that you were talking about salary would assume you were talking about actual impact in terms of basketball, and B) defending yourself with &quot;I hate him, I&#039;m biased, I admit to using bias in my writing&quot; doesn&#039;t strengthen your case in the slightest.

And regardless, a $10 million difference over 5 years doesn&#039;t really afford us with that much flexibility (in regards to Ariza)  With Marion, I agree, because the shorter term is attractive in my opinion.

And I would LOVE Kleiza coming off the bench.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well then your problem was ambiguity rather than bias.  Saying someone is a &#8220;bad fit&#8221; implies either on the court or in the locker room.  You do not say someone is a &#8220;bad fit&#8221; in reference to their contract.  You say they have a bad contract, or that their salary is a burden on the team.  How they fit in with the team has nothing to do with their contract.  </p>
<p>As I said, would anyone in the world consider Rashard Lewis a &#8220;bad fit&#8221; in Orlando? No.  Would anyone consider Kenyon Martin a &#8220;bad fit&#8221; in Denver? No.  How about Michael Redd in Milwaukee?  Peja in NO? Kirilenko in Utah?</p>
<p>All crippling contracts, all overpaid, all holding back their team from doing what they want to do in free agency.  But you will never hear anyone use the term &#8220;bad fit&#8221; to describe any of them, and if you did, it would refer to their on court or locker room impact, not their financial impact.</p>
<p>Clearly your choice of words was just not the best, but your initial defense of &#8220;mostly because I hate him!&#8221; did not address the questions I asked about him being a bad fit.  Therefore, my assumption was that bias was driving your statement that he would be a bad fit.  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s an unfair assumption to make.</p>
<p>If your intent in saying that Marion and Ariza were better fits was actually to acknowledge the salary differences, then I apologize for criticizing your writing, but you have to understand that A) anyone reading the term &#8220;better fit for our team&#8221; with no indication that you were talking about salary would assume you were talking about actual impact in terms of basketball, and B) defending yourself with &#8220;I hate him, I&#8217;m biased, I admit to using bias in my writing&#8221; doesn&#8217;t strengthen your case in the slightest.</p>
<p>And regardless, a $10 million difference over 5 years doesn&#8217;t really afford us with that much flexibility (in regards to Ariza)  With Marion, I agree, because the shorter term is attractive in my opinion.</p>
<p>And I would LOVE Kleiza coming off the bench.</p>
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		<title>By: kcroberts</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>kcroberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-68</guid>
		<description>Sorry that was to TM not any of the other commentors.

@ Earth Juice: I like Kleiza signing if it happens because he has 3pt range that Marion lack if he comes back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry that was to TM not any of the other commentors.</p>
<p>@ Earth Juice: I like Kleiza signing if it happens because he has 3pt range that Marion lack if he comes back.</p>
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		<title>By: kcroberts</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>kcroberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-67</guid>
		<description>The biggest part of my arguement is that he won&#039;t fit because he will be worth way too much and we won&#039;t be able to add more players in the future. Trevor and Marion allow us flexability in the future which is the biggest reason I think Hedo is a terrible fit for the team. I never said anything thing like &quot;Hedo is a terrible fit for the team on the court&quot; I said all things considered (contract value, on court ability, knowledge of the offense, defensive skill, etc.) Hedo is a worse fit. I agree that Hedo has been great offensively. But Marion has proven last season that he was good in our scheme and Turk hasn&#039;t show that yet which is why I am more prone to us signing Marion. That and he won&#039;t cripple us financially.

You took my statement to only mean he was a bad fit on the court. Saying he is a bad fit for the team implies more than just on the court ability but reflects all aspects of Hedo coming to Toronto, which you didn&#039;t seem to understand. I stand by my statement that Hedo is a worse fit despite my bias against him. I can be objective (and mostly was in this article) the only real bias I showed was in the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest part of my arguement is that he won&#8217;t fit because he will be worth way too much and we won&#8217;t be able to add more players in the future. Trevor and Marion allow us flexability in the future which is the biggest reason I think Hedo is a terrible fit for the team. I never said anything thing like &#8220;Hedo is a terrible fit for the team on the court&#8221; I said all things considered (contract value, on court ability, knowledge of the offense, defensive skill, etc.) Hedo is a worse fit. I agree that Hedo has been great offensively. But Marion has proven last season that he was good in our scheme and Turk hasn&#8217;t show that yet which is why I am more prone to us signing Marion. That and he won&#8217;t cripple us financially.</p>
<p>You took my statement to only mean he was a bad fit on the court. Saying he is a bad fit for the team implies more than just on the court ability but reflects all aspects of Hedo coming to Toronto, which you didn&#8217;t seem to understand. I stand by my statement that Hedo is a worse fit despite my bias against him. I can be objective (and mostly was in this article) the only real bias I showed was in the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: EarthJuice</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>EarthJuice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-66</guid>
		<description>I agree. Marion is preferred. I hate signing someone (Ariza) to big money after one good season. It just brings back bad memories of when the BJ&#039;s signed Eric Hinske (Rookie of the Year) to that big contract. Who knew he would be a bum? The argument with Ariza is after 2 or 3 good seasons, he will cost much more than $7-8 million. I am liking the idea of having Keizla (too lazy too look up correct spelling) of the Nuggets as the backup SF. Wouldnt it be nice if he turned into a Turkolu down the road?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. Marion is preferred. I hate signing someone (Ariza) to big money after one good season. It just brings back bad memories of when the BJ&#8217;s signed Eric Hinske (Rookie of the Year) to that big contract. Who knew he would be a bum? The argument with Ariza is after 2 or 3 good seasons, he will cost much more than $7-8 million. I am liking the idea of having Keizla (too lazy too look up correct spelling) of the Nuggets as the backup SF. Wouldnt it be nice if he turned into a Turkolu down the road?</p>
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		<title>By: tmwilliamson</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>tmwilliamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-65</guid>
		<description>Hedo&#039;s age is certainly a legitimate concern when you consider the term we&#039;d be giving him.  I&#039;d rather have Marion for 3 than Hedo for 5.

I still think Hedo will be a decent starter in the NBA at 35 though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hedo&#8217;s age is certainly a legitimate concern when you consider the term we&#8217;d be giving him.  I&#8217;d rather have Marion for 3 than Hedo for 5.</p>
<p>I still think Hedo will be a decent starter in the NBA at 35 though.</p>
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		<title>By: tmwilliamson</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>tmwilliamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-64</guid>
		<description>To be honest, I&#039;d prefer that we re-sign Marion  out of the three.  I think Turk would be a very nice addition, but at the numbers that have been rumored, Marion seems to be the best value.  I&#039;m wary of signing Ariza to $7 or $8 million a year, primarily because could anyone possibly imagine him getting that much in March?  His 7 or 8 million dollar play (if even that) took place in a very short amount of time.  I&#039;m not sure he could maintain that level of play over an entire season, especially on a team where he would be asked to play a much, much greater role.

If we&#039;re going after Lee, that signals to me that either Bosh or Bargnani is going to be moved (most likely Bosh, of course)  I like Lee, but he doesn&#039;t bring anything near what Bosh does.  I don&#039;t see how a Lee/Bosh/Bargs rotation would work, as none of them can play the 3, and there aren&#039;t enough minutes for three guys that talented.

The offseason has taken a very interesting turn for Toronto in the past couple of days.  I&#039;m excited to see how this all pans out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, I&#8217;d prefer that we re-sign Marion  out of the three.  I think Turk would be a very nice addition, but at the numbers that have been rumored, Marion seems to be the best value.  I&#8217;m wary of signing Ariza to $7 or $8 million a year, primarily because could anyone possibly imagine him getting that much in March?  His 7 or 8 million dollar play (if even that) took place in a very short amount of time.  I&#8217;m not sure he could maintain that level of play over an entire season, especially on a team where he would be asked to play a much, much greater role.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re going after Lee, that signals to me that either Bosh or Bargnani is going to be moved (most likely Bosh, of course)  I like Lee, but he doesn&#8217;t bring anything near what Bosh does.  I don&#8217;t see how a Lee/Bosh/Bargs rotation would work, as none of them can play the 3, and there aren&#8217;t enough minutes for three guys that talented.</p>
<p>The offseason has taken a very interesting turn for Toronto in the past couple of days.  I&#8217;m excited to see how this all pans out.</p>
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		<title>By: tmk</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>tmk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-63</guid>
		<description>Damn it. I didn&#039;t really take the time to read all the comments, but instead I went ahead typing a response on how I don&#039;t think Hedo fits. But then I read tmwilliamson&#039;s response and he pretty much answered my points. Thanks for wasting my time :P.

But...I still don&#039;t like Hedo&#039;s age. I really do think that Bosh will leave at the end his contract because I doubt Hedo would be enough to convice him to stay. So, having a 30+ year old with a huge salary while your trying to rebuild probably won&#039;t help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn it. I didn&#8217;t really take the time to read all the comments, but instead I went ahead typing a response on how I don&#8217;t think Hedo fits. But then I read tmwilliamson&#8217;s response and he pretty much answered my points. Thanks for wasting my time <img src='http://raptorsrapture.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>But&#8230;I still don&#8217;t like Hedo&#8217;s age. I really do think that Bosh will leave at the end his contract because I doubt Hedo would be enough to convice him to stay. So, having a 30+ year old with a huge salary while your trying to rebuild probably won&#8217;t help.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Ariza Trade &#124; FTP2FTP News</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Ariza Trade &#124; FTP2FTP News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-62</guid>
		<description>[...] Dino Nation Blog: B.C Plan? Hedo? Ariza? LEE Huh?The best bet for the Raptors is to sign Shawn Marion back or sign Trevor Ariza, who ESPN reported this morning is likely out of LA. Both are a much better fit for our team than Hedo Turkoglu. Sources are saying that Shawn Marion is &#8230; (all figures U.S.) and is seen as one of the top young free agents out there; he&#8217;s a restricted free agent so if Toronto were to simply make an offer and not try to engineer some sign-and-trade transactions, the Knicks could match it.” &#8230; Read more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dino Nation Blog: B.C Plan? Hedo? Ariza? LEE Huh?The best bet for the Raptors is to sign Shawn Marion back or sign Trevor Ariza, who ESPN reported this morning is likely out of LA. Both are a much better fit for our team than Hedo Turkoglu. Sources are saying that Shawn Marion is &#8230; (all figures U.S.) and is seen as one of the top young free agents out there; he&#8217;s a restricted free agent so if Toronto were to simply make an offer and not try to engineer some sign-and-trade transactions, the Knicks could match it.” &#8230; Read more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: EarthJuice</title>
		<link>http://raptorsrapture.com/2009/07/02/it-looks-like-my-prayers-have-been-answered-turkoglu-deal-debunked/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>EarthJuice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raptorsrapture.com/?p=214#comment-61</guid>
		<description>Turk is too expensive at $10-12 million, unless we do a sign n trade with Marion. I would prefer Ariza at $7-8 million in this SnT scenario.Without the sign n trade we have less to spend on bench players. This team has no chance without good bench players, no matter how good the 5 starters might appear. One of the starters will be down for a significant amount of time at some point next season. Simple laws of probability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Turk is too expensive at $10-12 million, unless we do a sign n trade with Marion. I would prefer Ariza at $7-8 million in this SnT scenario.Without the sign n trade we have less to spend on bench players. This team has no chance without good bench players, no matter how good the 5 starters might appear. One of the starters will be down for a significant amount of time at some point next season. Simple laws of probability.</p>
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